29th October 2005

MP joins Green Coffee House Discussion

The monthly Green party sponsored Coffee House Discussion on Friday 28th October at Star Anise brought in 45 to 50 people to discuss all aspects of the Government's scheme to introduce ID cards. After the three speakers there were questions, more coffee and cake and general discussions that were fed back to all at the end (i).

There seemed to be overwhelming opposition to the current plans and when asked who would carry the card only a handful of people put their hands up.

Martin Whiteside, the Green party candidate for Stroud District (pictured above right) in the last election stepped in at a minutes notice to lead the discussion as the two speakers were delayed. The Green party, who are opposed to the governments ID card plan, already have a link on their website urging people to sign a national NO2ID card campaign. Martin Whiteside, who is also a District councillor kicked off with an overview of the various problems with the cards.

Martin Whiteside concluded that: "The ID card scheme won't stop terrorists, will not eliminate benefit fraud, will cost billions of taxpayers money, plans to use untested and unreliable technology and will mean our most intimate details will be controlled by the government forever. Worse still in all this is the fact that the Home Office have provided no real arguments to address these serious concerns or indeed any argument for ID cards. This is a serious blow to democracy."

David Drew MP (pictured above centre), arrived and it was noted that the ID card Bill has now been passed to the Lords. David Drew was among 20 Labour MPs to rebel at the Bill's Third Reading, but not on all amendments. He outlined his support for a simple ID card scheme but not this scheme.

David Gould, from the national organisation NO2ID, spoke next (pictured speaking above left). He only became an 'activist' in his words after doing his thesis on data protection and getting very concerned by what he saw happening. He noted how he was recently in the news for challenging the Home Office Minister over ID cards and the fact that by assigning an unique number to each of us, all databases like Police, Inland Revenue, health and more can be amalgamated into a massively intrusive personal dossier. This numbering is actually illegal according to the German constitution because of what happened in the 40s there, but there are no such checks in this country.

David Gould went onto raise more concerns and confirm many of the point's raised earlier by Martin Whiteside. He made a particular point about the unreliability of the technology quoting Microsoft having warned that the ID scheme could actually generate 'massive identity fraud' rather than help prevent it. He also quoted Robert Marshall-Andrews MP who said: "Not since the Domesday book in 1068 have we seen anything like it. That was a system of registration put into effect by the Normans—or the new Normans, as I suspect they were known at the time." He went onto say that this will be the first time British subjects will be made to turn up and have their fingerprints taken, irises scanned etc.

In the discussions that followed many issues were raised (i) and the speakers challenged to clarify or explain more.


What next nationally?

The bill now moves on to the House of Lords on Monday (31st October) where it is expected to get a rougher ride. However, the government can now use the Parliament Act to force the bill through if they wish, though when asked by Charles Kennedy the day after 3rd Reading the Prime Minister refused to say whether the government would use it.
 
During the Report Stage debates and 3rd Reading a total of 32 Labour backbenchers took part in six separate rebellions against the government. But as revolts.co.uk pointed out: "the government survived comfortably by repeating the whipping tactics of the last two Parliaments: encouraging Labour backbenchers not to oppose all aspects of the bill at the same time". The government once again used a guillotine motion to curtail parliamentary discussion. As Richard Shepherd MP put it: "the government rule by guillotine, not by winning arguments in debate".
 

What next for Stroud?
 
David Gould noted the national NO2ID card pledge that people can sign - the Gloucestershire Green party have a link from their website; www.glosgreenparty.org.uk

He also noted there were NO2ID groups in Swindon and Bristol but not yet in Stroud. He would be happy to help people establish a group.

Martin Whiteside commented: "The Gloucestershire Green party will continue our opposition to these cards and would welcome a NO2ID card group that could create more cross-party opposition to these ridiculous plans."


Notes:

(i) Key Issues raised by groups of participants included:

- Health hazard of scanning eyes
- ID cards affect our psyches on an unconscious level
- David Drew wanted to promote a simple ID card. There was no clarity over what this might entail.
- David Drew noted many private companies had considerable data on us already but private companies current databases should be controlled
- Where is the whole thing going?
- Will prevent those without ID from seeking services - yet surely we all want people with illness/viruses etc to get help and not spread disease?
- There was concern for itinerant, homeless and other marginalised people. Some thought it would make their lives even worse. Others thought it might improve them.
- This wont help terrorism - Is there an alternative way to combat terrorism?
- Some people felt a deep anxiety regarding the ID card issue. Is there a way to stop it?
- The individual is being asked to live an even more transparent life, while the private sector has become and is becoming even less transparent.
- There is a human rights issue
- ID data will not be safe on the internet, which is where it will be stored.
- We have rights, under common law, which will be severely restricted by ID cards.
- What are ID cards for?
- this is a plastic poll tax
- What data will be collected about us and how will it be monitored?
- Is the request for information going to prevent people from seeking the help they need? E.gwill people not seek medical help because they don’t want it to be recorded?
- People will be horrified when they realise that the penalty for not carrying ID cards is a £2500 fine. (How on earth will they make the homeless etc pay these fines? Aren’t our prisons already over full?)